walleye time?...sturgeon bay/ waubashene area

[John Whyte]

Thanks John.  I totally agree with you that Native harvesting is what is destroying the Walleye numbers.  Not just our area but in Lake Nipissing as well.  I wrote a letter to the MNR but they refused to say anything about First Nations netting.  They kept writing about "recreational fishing" that's the problem.  It's frustrating that they cannot state facts, only manipulating facts.  Nets destroy thousands at a time, no matter what size or specie.  But MNR actually think that their B.S is believable.  Natives lecture about protecting the environment, but they are doing so much harm by netting inland lakes like Nipissing because it's their "right".  When those treaties were written, there was an abundance of walleye in the lakes and we evolved since then.  We know now that those treaties were agreed upon by ignorance and that they have to be adjusted to save the fisheries.  Sorry, touchy subject for me.

First Nation netting is not the major problem, just part of a larger problem. Non native commercial harvesting still poses the largest threat in my opinion. Most of the natives I know just fish with a rod and reel and have the same respect and results we do. Many purchase fishing licences even though they don't have to. Many of the First Nations netting is done for the what we consider the spirit of the treaties, to provide food for their families. I have no issue with that and respect their rights. The First Nations netting on east side of Georgian Bay should never be confused with what is going on with the SON's agreement or the mess on Nipissing. Still, we have an extremely sensitive walleye fishery where stocks are close to all time lows so any commercial harvesting can have a large impact.

As Fuzzy has pointed out there are locals that catch two fish, take them home and are back out for another limit. But this happens regardless of the slot. We have a single strong year class from 2007 or 2008 and a weaker one from around 2010 but in the last 4 years which I believe to be the peak of the recover things have declined drastically again. Four years ago we had 30 fish days in the fall and last year it was one or two fish days right through to December.

As for the current slot I don't think it has any effect anymore. The brood stock necessary for natural recruitment see the nets long before the see the spawning grounds and until this is sorted out I don't see why recreational anglers should be the only ones with restrictions.

[GeorgianBay MessageBoard]

[Kevin B]

I respect your opinion John.  But I truly believe that Native fishing is a major problem.  I have seen natives practice their "rights" by spearing walleye up rivers, spawning areas.  I have listened to a native brag about the amount of walleye they speared and hundreds in their freezer.  If you actually believe that natives net to feed their families you are mistaken.  Many businesses purchase these fish from natives.  Also I have observed video of a native net haul hundreds of walleye and placed in a pick-up truck on a warm day.  The "fishermen" then went for a few "pops" while the fish spoiled.  They then decided to go to the local dump and get rid of their catch.......then go back and set the nets.  MNR would not touch that video.  I'm not saying all natives don't respect the waters and fisheries.  But there is a problem there as nets destroy thousands and thousands more then a bunch of recreational fishermen with a rod and reel.

[Canuck]

How can commercial harvest by anyone of any species NOT be a major part of the problem?  That simply makes no sense, but we hear it all the time as part of political correctness.  The fact is that anytime you have commercial harvest you are taking massive amounts of fish out of the system that would otherwise be spawning or growing larger. 

Remember a few years ago when the MNR was doing a lot of lake trout stocking in and around southern Georgian Bay?  That was also the last time I saw the commericial fishing boats laying nets in and around Giants Tomb and off of the east side of the Nottawasaga bay.  Now you don't see them fishing in those areas anymore.  Why?  They have cleaned out the Lake Trout down to a level where commercial fishing economics don't make sense anymore (until MNR stocking catches up again).

About 7 years ago I was sitting in our cottage one November morning near Tiny Beaches road with binoculars watching a commercial boat pulling gill nets on the shoals off off 15 concession.  They were really close, less than a mile offshore.  They pulled hundreds of fish out of the net while I watched and the net was put back to fish again.  Why November and why off those shoals?  Spawning season and location for Lake Trout. 

Anyone want to explain to me how that does not affect the future population of Lake Trout? 

[Kevin B]

Canuck...I agree with you 100%.  Commercial fishing is the major problem.  Whites Fishing from Collingwood has retired so the problem is the First Nation netting.  I'm not politically correct so I say it like I see it.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that netting takes out thousands of fish at a time.  Not only that but they don't discriminate in age or size so the so called "slot limit" makes no sense.   To compare a rod and reel to a net is crazy and that just hides the truth.  Think about it, a net across spawning grounds destroys thousands including hundred of thousands of eggs.  I don't care about a treaty that was written a hundred years ago.  I'm sure there was an abundance of fish then.  We are now in a changing world and we must adjust our "treaties" for the environment's sake.  Isn't that what First Nations teaches?

[Mrbeee]

and when the treaty was written , they did not have a 42ft ship
diesel winch and 4 miles of nylon net

[John Whyte]

and when the treaty was written , they did not have a 42ft ship
diesel winch and 4 miles of nylon net

or a GPS

I agree commercial fishing is a major stressor on the fishery and certainly the spearing in the rivers by First Nations is a very large problem. But the whole blame can't be directed at all First Nations. Any of them will tell you the abuses are from a very small minority of people. They just do not have the resources or enforcement to do anything about it and the CO's in the area are told they are not to interfere even if the law is being broken. They are a problem being part of the entire commercial harvest when it comes to walleye. 

These problems are the fault of the provincial government negotiators over the last 8 years becoming more and more liberal with the decision of the supreme court in regards to the actual spirit of the treaty. The federal government does not recognize commercial fishing by First Nations.

As for lake trout, most commercial harvesters don't want them. They are only worth $.80 a pound whereas walleye are $3+ a pound wholesale, slightly higher than whitefish. What really bothers me is incidental pike, bass, musky, sturgeon, and other species that are killed during shoal netting. In southern Lake Huron they use trap nets. They seem to be much more responsible there and the use of trap nets is their option. On Georgian Bay they use only gill nets and they will tell you the reason is because it cost too much to use trap nets and they have a lower yield. They could care less about incidental catch. The same commercial harvester that was responsible for the collapse in the Moon River system now operates out of Thunder Beach and has 5 or 6 offences for over quota and territory fished. How many offences do you need before you get your licence revoked? 

[Daveyboy]

Is anyone fishing for walleye in the Collingwood area?  I haven't fished for them in gbay yet and looking for a starting point near me. Any advice would be appreciated, looking to go out this weekend if the weather holds like this.