Author Topic: Salmon Spoons  (Read 7559 times)

Offline Saugeen Drifter

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Salmon Spoons
« on: April 10, 2020, 12:24:00 pm »
I have a question for all you summer salmon hunters; Georgian Bay and Lake Huron are as different as Lake Ontario and Lake Superior when it comes to salmon fishing. From experience I have learned what works on Huron (spoon colours, set ups) does not work as effectively on GB. I have recently moved 9km from GB and will be fishing it this year. What should I be using as far as spoons? For example, purples work well on Huron but have never caught a fish on GB on a purple spoon, dipseys work well on Huron, not so much on GB. Any pointers would be great. PM me if you don't want the group ridicule. I know during the derby meat is very popular, I've tried that and over 5 years of fishing the entire derby took 2 salmon on meat. Catch more on lyman.
Thanks
Take a kid fishing
Give a child a fish, the child eats for a day, teach a child to fish, the child eats for a life time and tells a life time of big fish stories
When my time comes I will never say, "I wish I would have worked more", I will say I wish I could have fished more.

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Offline Krawler

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 01:28:01 pm »
Iím always looking for the next best spoon or colour pattern for the bay.
In the end every year it always comes back to colour.
Greens and blues. Mind you Iíll put out a variation of different colours early and then again later in the season. But you canít go wrong with a variation of greens and blues. Mind you I do find some greens and blues are better than others.
Speed is also a big factor, certain brand of spoons will run differently than others.
This off season I've bought 30 new spoons, with a variation of colours that Iím confident will fire. Some west coast stuff too.
My favourite brands for the Bay are Hotfish, Meegs, Moonshine and Northern King.

Hope this helps.

Offline Seguin Fisher

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 04:39:47 pm »
Itís funny how one persons best colours are not even close to the next persons. I have personally done very well on GB with purples. Mostly NKs and Nasty Boys with purple/white back or purple /black back. Iíve also done extremely well with both gold coloured spoons as well as some orange. Iíve caught quite a few on an orange monkey puke NK, in a smaller size as well as the standard size. Iíve also caught some fish on Dipseys on the bay, although I am usually just using downriggers most of the time.

Offline BillM

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2020, 04:32:28 pm »
Confidence spoons always go down first, end up getting bit then you just keep putting them down over and over, lol.   It's a wicked game!

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 01:45:25 pm »
I do not have even close experience in trolling comparing to most of you, guys, but I'd like to say that if fishermen would know a bit more about math probability they would stop talking about things like lure colors and many other...
Really, from scientific point of view, even though we all could combine our experience with the lures, it is impossible to proof which one works better.
Think about all different types of variation we have in our fishing "experiments": spoon color/size/ shape; clarity/color of water; speed of the spoon; fishing depth; lightness of the day (sunny, cloudy etc); time of the year; time of the day... I probably still missed a lot... Add here that we all know: if there is no fish around, then no lure would catch it. And the opposite: if there is a lot of hungry fish willing to bite almost any lure will succeed.
Combining it all, there are millions of variation... So it is impossible to confidently say that one particular lure color works better than another.
Saying all that I'll still listen to Krawler advise about green/blue and get and use some of that to substitute my golden/silver stuff. Why? I'm sure I cannot be wrong with it... At the very least it all doesn't matter..

Offline BillM

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 01:40:06 am »
I do not have even close experience in trolling comparing to most of you, guys, but I'd like to say that if fishermen would know a bit more about math probability they would stop talking about things like lure colors and many other...
Really, from scientific point of view, even though we all could combine our experience with the lures, it is impossible to proof which one works better.
Think about all different types of variation we have in our fishing "experiments": spoon color/size/ shape; clarity/color of water; speed of the spoon; fishing depth; lightness of the day (sunny, cloudy etc); time of the year; time of the day... I probably still missed a lot... Add here that we all know: if there is no fish around, then no lure would catch it. And the opposite: if there is a lot of hungry fish willing to bite almost any lure will succeed.
Combining it all, there are millions of variation... So it is impossible to confidently say that one particular lure color works better than another.
Saying all that I'll still listen to Krawler advise about green/blue and get and use some of that to substitute my golden/silver stuff. Why? I'm sure I cannot be wrong with it... At the very least it all doesn't matter..

How is it impossible if one lure gets ate 6 times and the other zero all other conditions being the same?    Perhaps a little better understanding of fishing is in order before making statements like almost any lure will succeed, lol.

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 11:20:48 am »
Quote
Perhaps a little better understanding of fishing is in order
Perhaps.
This is what I'm trying to achieve.
If you wouldn't mind, could you give the specific example of such situation:
Quote
one lure gets ate 6 times and the other zero all other conditions being the same
Perhaps it would sound like this:
We run two down riggers side by side for X hours with different lures and then we switched the lures and run again X hours. The result: First X hours lure A produced N fishes and lure B produced Zero fishes and at the second X hours Lure A produced M fishes and lure B produced twice less...
That would sound somehow scientifically and as such trustful.
But even though we cannot be quite sure that in different environmental conditions (weather, temperature, water clarity etc) the lure B would not outperform the lure A.
Also, perhaps you could realize that I do not say all lures are equal in results. What I'm saying is that it is close to impossible to proof which one is better in given conditions.
And this topic actually indicate this because two fishermen (Krawler and Seguin Fisher) with good skills and experience have different opinion on lure colors.

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2020, 10:38:32 pm »
I found a link on another forum regarding the thing we are talking about here.
I case that not everybody from this board also subscribed to that forum I paste the link to this article here.
https://www.glangler.com/blogs/articles/speed-traps-by-capt-mike-schoonveld
From this thorough article you could see that even right trolling speed may vary without known base. If we add here just lure types and colors, then we will get a really great ambiguity... But  there are many more environmental varieties.

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 09:23:25 am »
Over the years, I've learned that lure colours are a serious factor in enjoying a successful day when downrigging for salmon. Depth is a prime consideration when selecting colours. It is a well established fact that the colour spectrum is quite sensitive to varying depths. For example red and orange colours fade significantly as you work from shallow depths to deeper water. Conversely, blue colours remain more visible if you are running deep set-ups. Chartreuse and green colours are effective in mid-range trolling. Silver finishes reflect more light than chrome finishes. Point is that depth may be the most significant factor as opposed to trying to determine what colour produces best in varying lakes or water bodies. Obviously water clarity (such as Georgian Bay) is yet another factor to consider. Keeping written records of what proved successful for you on various outings will help to build confidence. More importantly, it will reduce the amount of time you spend switching lures and colour combinations. This practice is a common one but you simply can't catch fish with the lures being continuously shuffled from the rigger to the tackle box. You'll eventually establish your favourite lures for the location you are working. If I had to select the single most important factor for a successful trolling outing I'd have to pass on colours and finishes and concentrate on trolling speed.
"... better to burn out, than to fade away ..." Neil Young

Offline Krawler

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2020, 09:48:11 am »
Well said Jim.  Always enjoy reading your posts and responses.  Talisman on the water this year?  Penetang or ??

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2020, 11:21:24 am »
Thanks for the post, Jim. Really, well said.
I'd like just to add that when we talk about color diminishing down the water column, we talk about emitted light not the reflection light. That simply means that in mid range (where red light is disappears), the red color lure would be seen as black, green still as green and blue as blue. Go deeper, and green will become black thus only blue is reflecting. Still, all other colors are remain visible as black amid bluish water column.
But this is only physical aspects of the light. Ironically, during my university degree I was studying exactly psychological aspects of color vision. So, whatever human see as any specific color does not mean that fish or other animal would see it as same. I remember there was a study several years ago which concluded that deer see hunting orange as blue. May be or may be not.
But based on this theoretical observation, the most universal and unerring colors would be mirror-like (such as bright silver, as it will reflect light in different colors on any depth) and black color (which would be seen as black in any surrounding). And - no surprises - this is the colors of the most fish scales.
But, Jim, you said
Quote
Silver finishes reflect more light than chrome finishes
What is the difference? I was considering silver and chrome reflect essentially the same colors. Could you, please, clarify?
Thank you!

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 11:48:56 am »
Spoons that have a silver coating (Williams, Sutton, etc) reflect more light than spoons that are chrome finished. When trolling deep water the chrome finished spoons reflect less light. To increase light reflection, a number of spoon manufacturers offer "hammered" or dimpled surfaces. I have to admit that I lack the technical/scientific knowledge to further explain this long established issue. I know from several decades of experience that silver coated spoons outproduce chrome counterparts significantly, especially when running deep set-ups.
"... better to burn out, than to fade away ..." Neil Young

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 12:36:01 pm »
Thanks, Jim!
I'm not asking for technical details but for me, when I look at the spoon I don't see the difference between silver and chrome. Actually, before you mentioned it here I thought they all the same.
So is it possible to distinguish by look the silver from chrome? If not could you please give me more examples of silver and chrome spoons.
Also, are Williams suitable for trolling? I only used them for ice fishing and didn't think they are good for casting or trolling as they are very light. I mostly use Little Cleo which are a bit heavy and also seem to be more durable than William. Williams get corroded or dim quite fast especially if neglected.
Also could you give an advise about the size of the spoon. I heard for salmon the biggest spoons should be used. Is it correct?
Thank you!

Offline Canuck

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 08:35:56 pm »
Wading in.  I have heard the same, that silver plate is better than chrome.  I don't believe it myself.  As for williams for trolling, I would say no.  They just have a spinning action when trolled at constant speed.  Not good for salmon.  But great for pike with a twitch, reel, twitch pause action.  They are my go to lure for pike. 


For salmon you need something that flops around and darts in random ways.

Offline MarkD

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Re: Salmon Spoons
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 09:56:55 pm »
Quote
For salmon you need something that flops around and darts in random ways.
Canuck, could you please, specify?
I have very little experience in trolling, using only little cleo spoons, rapalas and recently some simple plugs.
I would appreciate any advises on working salmon lures.
Thanks.